There are few things I hate more than "show and tell piety" (a person who rants and raves in a public forum or on a friends page in order to show everyone how pious they are, but then in a private discussion there is nothing there.
One of the only things worse is a "hit and run" zealot, who makes statements/accusations in a discussion forum and then blocks you so that you can't respond to what they said to you. Well I can still respond... I'll post it to my weblog so everyone on the planet can see it.
I can't quote the whole discussion for you because his posts aren't visible to me anymore now that he has blocked me, but I will post the private messages that include quotes from what he said to me in his posts.
I emailed him out of respect to a friend of mine on whose page we were having a discussion that evolved into a discussion about religion and religion fanatics. The following email is a response to his last public post.
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>>>Yep you bash and then play victim.
--->It doesn't suprise me you'd say something like that. For centuries, christians have ostracized and persecuted people who stand up for theirselves in the face of oppressive christian mobs trying to force their religion onto everyone else around them. The examples of that throughout history, and including in our own modern times are too numerous to list, but I can come up with a short list for you if you want me to.
>>>Your assessments wrong and misguided at best,
--->Instead of just stomping your foot and insisting I'm wrong, why don't you support statement's like that with some kind of supporting statements or evidence. If understanding is what you're goal is when talking with me (I don't think that's your goal, btw), you should support your statements instead of just throwing accusations at me like that without backing them up.
>>>dangerous at the worst
--->Dangerous indeed. Dangerous to those who would supress free thought and free will. Dangerous to those who would keep every one else as a prisoner to their religion like sheep being herded. Dangerous to the powermongers who depend on our meekness and our ignorance in order to maintain their grasp on us and our families.
>>>I guess I am not welcome in your community if I call myself a christian.
--->I don't know enough about you to know if you'd be welcome or not. I don't judge anyone solely by the religion they claim (although it does say alot about them). I judge them by their actions. Chad is a christian, and I care for him dearly. That being the case, how can you accuse me of judging people based on nothing more than their religion?
>>>who is the judge of what the context of our community is.
--->We are all judged by our works. We all judge everyone else by their works.
>>>What of MLK's statement to not judge by the color of skin but the content of
their character and heart.
--->Completley irrelevant, considering I haven't made any comments critical of someone because of their race... Or even their religion. I have made observations and criticisms of the religious movement you claim as your own, and the actions of many of those within that movement. Their actions, and their character. That's what I criticise.
>>>Keep fooling yourself but I think the best friend you've got is a christian, I am sorry you cannot see that.
--->You know nothing about me or my friends. That's so typical. You make criticisms of me based on things you couldn't possibly know, after whining about my criticism of a group of people based on observations of their actions.
If you're interested in a real discussion with the goal of pursuing understanding, I'll give that to you... But I'm not going to bicker with you over straw men and twisted words. I seriously doubt you are interested in anything other than publically grandstanding on someone else's facebook page so that everyone else can see how pious you are. Now that this has moved to a private discussion, I'm betting you'll have no further use for the discussion. I'm interested in seeing if you'll prove me wrong.
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The following is his response to my message to him:
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I am sorry you feel the way you do and you are a crafty wordsmith, however your broad brush that you paint all christians with is wrong. Sorry did I say anything else? Nope, you are just wrong. No argument, no long drawn out proof, your wrong. You hate christians and then you want to see them persecuted and their rights to free expression taken away. Well you can do that but when you do, it won't be long until you lose you rights too. You also say I know nothing of your friends, well you know nothing of me and you have told me how I am going to vote, even when I don't live in your state, and how I am going to act. Are you all-knowing? No, your just judgmental, so get over yourself and stop looking for a fight where there has never been on. You are right, I don't know you, but your wrong because I have judged you by what you said. I have never made a judgmental statement against you and yet you constantly attack me. So keep up your diatribe but its falling on deaf ears.
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The following is my response to his private message to me. I am posting all of this here because I was unable to send this message to him because he blocked me. I don't make it a habit of posting private messages publicly, but no one gets the privelage of shutting me up. When someone pulls something childish and ignorant like this, I'll post it publicly so everyone can see how childish and ignorant it is. You don't get to do that in private, and then shut me down, and expect it not to become public.
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>>>you are just wrong. No argument, no long drawn out proof, your wrong.
--->Ofcourse not... Because you have none. Christians have no use for evidence, and facts. They take everything they believe on "faith" (belief in something that is not based on proof, facts, or evidence) and they reject any facts or evidence that contradicts their faith. So it is really no suprise you're unable/unwilling to have a frank discussion of the facts.
>>>you are a crafty wordsmith,
--->I'm just honest with my observations and my criticism, and I passionately stand up for myself and for my neighbors when I see oppression and injustice, especially when it's committed in the name of religion. Any religion... It just happens that Islam and Christianity are the two religions responsible for most (almost all) of the violence, oppression, and injustice in the world.
>>>however your broad brush that you paint all christians with is wrong.
I don't paint every single christian with anything. There are christians that believe that your god approves of homosexuality. There are christians that believe in protecting civil liberties and the seperation of church and state. It's too bad they are a tiny minority of all christians.
>>>You hate christians
--->That's ridiculous. I don't hate christians, I hate what christianity is and what it does. Several of my closest friends are christians. That ridiculous statement just shows that you aren't able to evaluate and understand what you see indpendent of any biases christianity has programmed you with.
>>> and then you want to see them persecuted and their rights to free expression taken away.
--->I'd love to know where you got that from anything that I've said. It's so typical that a christian would take my comments (comments that support free speach and equal rights for everyone) and suggest that I am the one who wants persecution and limits on free speach. I know you all desire to become persecuted martyrs, but you should at least make it believable before you try something like that.
>>> No, your just judgmental,
--->I am indeed judgemental. The difference between you and I is that I admit it, while you claim that you're not.
>>> stop looking for a fight where there has never been on.
--->I don't need to look for a fight. It's all around us. Christians murdering doctors in Kansas because of the procedures they offer, christians murdering people in Uganda because of their sexual orientation, christians protesting military funerals suggesting our service members are dying because "god hates fags." Bill OReilly gets on Fox News every night and reminds us the "Culture War" that christians are waging against the rest of us is happening.
>>>I have never made a judgmental statement against you and yet you constantly attack me.
--->I went back to the discussion thread to quote the judgemental statements you've made, but they've all been deleted. Probably not deleted, probably just not viewable by me because you blocked me. But that's ok because you don't want a discussion based on facts and evidence that will eventually lead to understanding anyway.
>>>So keep up your diatribe but its falling on deaf ears.
--->Of course it is. When christians hear something that challenges their beliefs and their value system, instead of evaluating it and understanding where it comes from, they stick their fingers in their ears like children and yell, "I can't hear you, I can't hear you..." Lol.
You've represented your community well sir... Well played.
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